Centers' Little Helper

Dennis Hans, unrenowned former adjunct professor of mass comm and American foreign policy, relentlessly exposed the Bush administration’s “techniques of deceit” BEFORE the Iraq war, when it could have made a difference (see links). For decades he has fought baseball’s discrimination against lefthanded infielders and promoted his ingenious clockwise solution. A lifelong advocate for a flowing, non-brutal, flop-free NBA, he now champions the cause of its second-class citizens: the centers.

Wednesday, April 18, 2007

Amaechi, Hardaway and the vexing question, Are pro hoopsters “athletes”?

Back in 2001, I posed that question in an essay that ran in the online edition of the Sporting News. That may well have been the only occasion when Tim Hardaway and John Amaechi were mentioned in the same essay prior to Hardaway’s ignorant rant about gay athletes and gay people in general. My essay had nothing to do with sexual orientation (Amaechi was still in the closet), dealing instead with the ludicrous claim that NBA hoopsters are “the greatest athletes in the world.” Many, including Tim Hardaway in his younger days, are. But the league is so overrun with mediocrities (such as Amaechi and several of his 2000-01 Orlando Magic teammates) that the claim, as a generalization, is laughable.

On a side note, I was pleased to hear Amaechi’s Magic coach, Doc Rivers, and former Magic teammate Grant Hill say recently that they would welcome and be publicly supportive of an openly gay teammate. That said, I think Amaechi is off-base when he suggests that Jazz coach Jerry Sloan had it in for him because Sloan suspected he was gay.

The impression I got from Amaechi’s book is that Sloan was rightly disgusted with Amaechi’s lack of commitment. Due to Amaechi's limited athelticism, he was always a pathetic defender and rebounder (by NBA standards). But he did have a well-rounded, ambidextrous offensive repertoire (developed at Penn State). For him to be effective as a Jazz reserve, he had to keep that repertoire razor sharp, and that meant lots of extra work. Otherwise, you end up shooting 32.5 percent, which is what he shot his first season with the Jazz.

It's perfectly fine for a brilliant guy like Amaechi to have interests beyond b-ball, but Sloan is fully justified in expecting a highly paid professional to act like one. Alas, by the time he joined the Jazz Amaechi had lost the work ethic that enabled him to make it to the NBA in the first place. Then again, perhaps if Sloan had been more open to Amaechi's ideas on tweaking certain plays to enhance his effectiveness, his attitude and dedication would have been better.

Amaechi completely misses Sloan’s REAL bias: He actually likes slow dudes with limited talent (e.g., Jarron Collins), because he knows they won’t freelance on offense; he can always count on them staying within the confines of his system. Hard as it is to believe, Amaechi’s slowness and lack of jumping ability explain why Sloan’s Jazz was willing to give a fading, 30-year-old stiff a fat 4-year contract. And remember, this was toward the end of the Stockton-Malone era, when the only chance for the Jazz to make another title run was to surround their slowing but still highly skilled all-star tandem with active, athletic youngsters who would improve over the course of a long season if given playing time. Collins or a dedicated Amaechi might help you win a few extra regular-season games, but they're of limited value in the REAL season, the playoffs. Sloan made the same mistake in the middle of Amaechi's first Jazz season by signing Rusty LaRue to back up Stockton. LaRue was a very slow white dude who wouldn't make mental mistakes but also couldn't make plays. Giving the likes of LaRue and Amaechi playing time or, years later, letting Mo Williams get away because you prefer the much slower but slightly more polished point-guard tandem of Carlos Arroyo and Raul Lopez are coaching "mental mistakes." Better yet, it's a coaching "mindset," one that limits Sloan and prevents me from ranking him among the elite coaches.

Anyway, here’s that Dec. 21, 2001 Sporting News piece.

Many pro hoopsters are mediocre athletes
By Dennis Hans


Here’s a variation on the popular question, Are pro golfers “athletes”?

Are pro basketball players athletes?

The question seems sacrilegious. For years we’ve been told that professional hoopsters are “the greatest athletes in the world.” But the evidence is underwhelming.

Consider first the countless skyscrapers drawing fat NBA checks who are plagued by some combination of slow feet, bad hands, little agility, no rhythm, poor timing, bricklayer’s touch and other deficiencies. Last season [2000-01], nearly half the roster of the Orlando Magic -- a playoff team -- was filled with such people.

When I think “great athlete” I don’t think Michael Doleac (nice touch, but slow reflexes and can’t run or jump), Don Reid (can run fast in a straight line and can jump; can’t do much with the basketball), Andrew DeClercq (ditto), Pat Garrity (good hands and great stroke; sub-par quickness and jumping ability), or John Amaechi (brews a mean cup of pre-game tea; Brit’s other abilities less apparent). All are respected, intelligent, hard-working pros. But well-rounded, world-class athletes? Hardly.

What if we asked them to do something outside their sport that posed a modest athletic challenge, like making the routine plays of a shortstop? Garrity is the only one who could reliably field grounders (if hit directly at him) and make an accurate throw. But turning two with a baserunner bearing down would be a near-death experience.

Imagine this quintet trying to hit a 90 mph fastball -- or a 75 mph one, for that matter. Or throw a curve for a strike. Not a pretty picture.

Rest assured, Omar and Nomar (Vizquel and Garciaparra) would be dazzling at basketball with just a little practice. That’s because they’re among the greatest of the real world’s “world’s greatest athletes” -- guys under 6-2 who look good playing any game you can name.

Not persuaded? Let us turn from basketball’s mediocrities to Charles Barkley -- purportedly among the all-time greats in a profession of “great athletes.” But can you be considered a truly great athlete if you devote most of your non-drinking spare time to a game that, to be adequate, requires a modicum of arm-hand-eye-leg coordination, yet you remain light years away from attaining adequacy? Of all the non-disabled men in the world under 70 who play golf regularly, Barkley is the worst. His disjointed, hitch-ridden swing is the most unintentionally hilarious sight in sports.

Consider the greatest of the greats. Michael Jordan was a devoted baseball player from his youth right through high school. Later, he re-dedicated himself to the game while still in his athletic prime, hoping he could make the majors. Alas, even by minor league standards he was pathetic. Scrawny backup infielders barely out of high school hit the ball with more consistency and authority.

[WARNING! Inexcusable cheapshots in next paragraph. What I should have said back in 2001 is that the very-tall demographic is fairly small, so that when you reserve a few hundred NBA jobs for the really tall, you run out of great athletes much quicker than if those jobs were reserved for guys between, say, 5-8 and 6 feet, who comprise a much greater share of the population.]

Lucky for Jordan, as a young man he stumbled upon a sport that, at the professional level, limits four of the five positions (all but point guard) to a tiny slice of the population: tall people -- the world’s least coordinated demographic. For every man over 6-4 who can walk and chew gum at the same time there are ten who can’t.

Nitpickers will shout, “What about Allen Iverson? He’s barely 6 feet, yet he plays shooting guard, one of the positions you say is reserved for the tall.” Yes, I admit that Iverson is an exception. It’s probably just a coincidence that the league’s most electrifying performer -- and MVP -- is a man of average height.

The NBA’s powerhouse propaganda machine has persuaded the world that the most meaningful test of athleticism is the height you can reach from a running or standing jump. Thus Greg Ostertag is an athlete, Lee Trevino is not.

In reality, Trevino has much in common with veteran playmaker Tim Hardaway, who meets most any definition of “athlete.” Both are short, stocky and incredibly strong. Both have great hands, a million shots, and the imagination and moxie to pull them off when it matters most.

There’s more to athleticism than touching the rim with your forearm. Among other things, athleticism encompasses timing, rhythm, speed, strength, reflexes, agility, dexterity, quick hands, soft hands, touch, quick feet, quick “first step,” jumping height, jumping quickness, jumping rapidity, hand-eye coordination, foot-eye coordination, leg-arm-hand-eye coordination, and throwing and kicking power and accuracy.

Different sports -- and different skills within a sport -- require different combinations of athletic qualities. That explains why Jordan is a well-rounded superstar on the court and an easy out at the plate. It is why he whips Barkley on the golf course and is whipped by his pals Davis Love III and Tiger Woods.

Some guys look like a great athlete at first glance but fade upon close inspection. Seven-footer Darryl Dawkins could run faster than Larry Bird and jump higher (once he gathered himself) than Magic Johnson. But when we factor in reflexes, coordination, hands, agility and touch, it’s clear why Dawkins had a mediocre career: He couldn’t hold an athletic candle to Magic or Bird.

Magic and Bird were rare big guys who could do many of the things a million or two little guys can do. Half the NBA players are 6-8 or taller, and if most of them had half the abilities of Magic and Bird, the claim that the NBA is home to “the world’s greatest athletes” would merit debate.

Given the reality of NBA rosters, that claim is a crock. With the possible exception of football (which features skill-position marvels and a smattering of agile giants, but too many guys whose best attribute is size), no other pro sport -- not soccer, baseball, tennis, golf or bowling -- has as high a percentage of so-so or woeful athletes as the NBA.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got to get back to watching some real athletes. John Daly and Vijay Singh are going for the green.

304 Comments:

At 1:24 PM, Anonymous Ben said...

I have to respectfully disagree with you on your article regarding the relative athleticism of NBA players. While I agree that of all the major US sports, basketball is the only one that makes use of those that are not particularly athletic, to say the rest of the NBA is not athletic is inexcusably wrong.

Your example of Michael Jordan not being able to make the majors holds no weight - I don't think any MLB player could make the NBA either. You contend that "Omar and Nomar would be dazzling at basketball" without any proof. I can accept the fact that they could make the transition to basketball fairly easily, but there's not a chance they could make the NBA. Is that because of a lack of athletic ability? Not at all. It's because to make the highest level in any sport you have to devote your life to it. Michael Jordan devoted his life to basketball - it's no surprise to me that he then wasn't able to reach the pinnacle of excellence in another sport.

And to contend that golfers and bowlers are more athletic than NBA players is preposterous. Your measuring stick of athleticism seems to be the ability to cross over to other sports - do you honestly believe that more golfers could play football than basketball players?

 
At 2:32 PM, Blogger ken said...

What about Charlie Ward? Heisman Award-winner turned mediocre point guard.

Iverson was an amazing football talent in high school. Several mediocre basketball players turned to football late in their careers and made a considerable impact (Gonzales, etc.)

But then you consider golfers (John Daly, etc) to be athletes. You probably don't think football players are athletic either.

 
At 5:18 PM, Blogger Matt said...

Given: Allen Iverson, 6-foot all-around athlete, excels at basketball, a "tall man's sport".

Given: Basketball players are among the best-compensated athletes of any sport.

If there's room in the NBA for exceptional athletes at 6-feet or lower, and there is, as demonstrated by Iverson, then why don't more exceptional athletes get into basketball? It would pay much better than track and field, or even golf in many circumstances.

To contend that someone like Tiger Woods or Nomar could play at the NBA level is ludicrous; the game is too fast and "athletic", requiring not only coordination, but speed, reflexes, and endurance.

Do less-than-able tall men find work in the NBA? Certainly. Do fat, out-of-shape men find work in baseball? Definitely. Do gigantic elephants with no athletic qualities beyond size find employ in football? Yes.

In summary: Nice troll, but you'll need more hard evidence to convince me. By your logic I could call out a water polo player as the best athlete, since he's likely got enough coordination to reasonably tackle several sports, but nobody but nobody knows how to tread water and swim on the level required for competitive water polo.

 
At 5:58 PM, Blogger Dennis Hans said...

Matt, Ken and Ben --

You guys make some good points and argue your case well. But I stand by my main theme: that maybe 15 percent of NBA players are stiffs.

You have to be a great golfer, bowler or tennis player merely to qualify for a pro tour. There is no equivalents on those tours for the likes of Scot Pollard, the Collins twins, Doleac, Tsakalidas, Voskuhl, Steven Hunter, etc. The NBA is replete with big guys who have scant hoop-related athleticism or woeful skills or both.

In MLB, even mop-up relievers have great arms. Backup catchers have great reflexes, strong throwing arms and at least a decent ability to hit major league pitching. You have to be special to reach the major leagues. That's not the case for far too many NBA hoopsters.

 
At 7:10 PM, Anonymous Joe said...

Absolutely loved the insight in your new article. I have to agree with the other posters on your oriignal article--it made no sense.

Your comment that "about 15 percent of NBA players are stiffs" I agree with though.

 
At 8:48 PM, Anonymous Ethan said...

This article is ridiculous man, are you honestly saying that tiger woods, vijay singh, or nomar could enter the nba and play? not a chance, not even the slightest. does basketball offer opportunities for 7 ft. 3 non-athletes? yes. but how many of those make up a nba roster? the only position that a lack of athleticism is excusable at is the center position, and even there you will generally never be more than a journeyman without incredible skillsets, great atheltic ability, and a strong work-ethic.

and, "lucky for jordan"? what are you thinking? mj was easily one of the greatest athletes of all time, maybe the greatest, and he didn't stumble upon basketball and randomly succeed; it is the sport he fell in love with, and worked at until he was unbeatable. just like tiger. and far beyond any baseball, football, or soccer player today. to try to condemn him for failing to dominate the minors is ludicrous; he re-entered the sport with almost no training, after not playing in many years. that he could even walk onto the field and compete at all at that level is an incredibly remarkable accomplishment. in sports history, only tiger woods, lance armstrong, and a select handful of others can be mentioned as approaching his individual level of dominance.

basketball players may not have the best ratio of pure athletes on their rosters. that privilege belongs to soccer. but basketball and soccer do share the best athletes in the world. both sports demand that their players perform offensively and defensively, and involve a tremendous range of skills and athletic attributes.

and even against soccer, I would give a slight edge to basketball. who can approach the athletic perfection of a lebron james, tracy mcgrady, amare stoudemire, or kobe bryant? the combination of size, speed, quickness, agility, and coordination is awe-inspiring. in short, the constant motion in soccer and basketball, combined with the varied skill sets demanded, set their best athletes apart from all the rest.

 
At 10:54 PM, Blogger Michael said...

very interesting.

I think you might be confusing "athletic" ability with skill. Usually when we talk about "athletic" ability it focuses on pure muscle exertion, running, jumping, pulling, pushing.

Hand/eye coordination is nice, but magicians, pool players and fly fishermen have it as well as baseball players and golfers.

 
At 11:28 PM, Anonymous HalfNelson said...

Jim Thorpe holds the title as the Greatest Athlete of the 20th century. Only Jim Brown comes close to his legacy.

Although, what Michael Thorpe is doing on a yearly basis boggles the comprehending mind.

 
At 7:46 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well it has been seen that certain baseball players could play basketball, Lou Boudreau and jackie Robinson come to mind, i too have to respectfully disagree. Your argument was based on taking th least athletic basketball players and compering the to the most athletic baseball players. Let's take Tracy McGrady, who played high school baseball, and Derek Jeter, who played AAU basketball and see who's better at both sports. Sure Jeter might have some skill at basketball, but his underwhelming size, strength and overall athleticism would prevent him from ever having success on the court. Tracy McGrady would at least have some shot at playing baseball with success. The most important thing is that basketball players are stronger, taller, faster, better leapers and overall better atheletes than baseball players, and while the most athletic baseball players might outclass the least athletic basketball players, when both leagues are viewed on average, there is simply no comparison.

 
At 12:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Full disclosure: I'm a huge baseball fan. I love basketball too, but it is a distant second next to baseball.

There are many, many great athletes in baseball, but you do not necessarily need to be a great athlete to excell at baseball.

So, I've always considered the NBA to house the greatest athletes in sports (a previous commenter mentioned soccer as well, I'm sure this is true too. I'm by no means a soccer basher, but I honestly don't know enough about the sport to include it in the discussion). But baseball is mostly a skill game, and skills - especially the skills (hitting, pitching, etc.) needed to play at the ML level cannot be performed by just being a great athlete.

So whereas I do not think that MLB players are better athletes than NBA players, in general, I do actually think that you could find more MLB players who could be sucsessful in the NBA then you could find NBA being sucsessful in MLB. I believe this mostly based on the fact that hitting a baseball, consistantly, at the ML level is tremendously hard.

McGrady was mentioned. McGrady was a pitcher in high school and supposedly could bring heat in the 90's. That is awesome. However, I recently saw a show (probably on ESPN) that featured McGrady and Roger Clemens getting together over at Clemens' house outside of Houston. McGrady and Clemens both claiming to be huge fans of one antoher. Me being a big fan of both sports, but actually a bigger fan of McGrady then Clemens and knowing a bit about McGrady's baseball past was very interested.

Clemens through batting practice to McGrady and Tracy couldn't put the bat on the ball. Afterward, the duo played a game of horse, and Clemens won. However, dunks were obviously of limits - so maybe I shouldn't bring this up. But Clemens could shoot the rock. Ironically, at his age and size Clemens would not be able to fill the 12th spot on an NBA roster, but maybe at a comprable age to McGrady he would have a better chance to do so then McGrady would have at filling out the back end of a MLB team's bullpen.

 
At 12:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, I've seen video of LeBron James playing in charity softball games and whiffing horribly at the softball lobbed toward him while at the plate.

 
At 3:33 PM, Blogger david said...

I think you have to consider that the players you are calling "stiffs" are considered so in relation to other basketball players. They all got drafted, so they probably excelled on a college level. If you watch college games involving some of these "stiffs" they would clearly stand out from their competition. And 15% isn't really all that high. I would contend that only 20% (and that's generous) of golfers can be considered athletes, and maybe 70% of baseball players can be truly considered "athletic".

 
At 4:05 PM, Blogger Point said...

I am not 100% sure what the exact point of this article was, but I gather than you estimate - how you come up with this estimate escapes me, however - that 15% of the NBA is comprised on non-athletic "stiffs" and that that percentage is much higher than in any other major sport.

Since the percentage is pulled out of thin air, it is hard to argue with, but assume it is true. Pro hoops, you argue, has a place for players who are there for the sole reason of being tall. Otherwise, they wouldn't be there. Can't the same be said for football? If a player was not 300 pounds, no matter how nimble or strong, odds are he would not be playing on Sundays. Same with baseball: if an otherwise non-athletic guy did not have a cannon for an arm - David Wells, among others, comes to mind - I do not think he would be playing baseball. The same can be said for every other team sport: there exists niches in which players with one tremendous physical attribute can find a place and become successful. I think there are more lineman and pitchers being paid to play sports than there are stiffs, but much like you, I completely made that up, so I guess we will never know.

Your hardest evidence, I guess, is basketball players failing when they play other sports. Jordan is a terrible example. Throw away the fact that by the end of his run, he was actually making tremendous progress - I remember him hitting more than a few home runs - he had to undo years of development aimed specifically at helping him succeed as a basketball player. All athletes are not on the same training regimen; these are the most finely-tuned athlets in the world. THe muscles groups and skill sets utilized in basetball are wildly different from those used in baseball or any other sport. If Jordan had devoted his entire life to playing baseball, do you honestly think he wouldn't have succeeded? Really?

And while there may be limited evidence of basketball players becoming All Stars in other sports, I can think if no players who have left other sports to become even remotely viable in basketball. It is much more common for athletes to go from say, football to baseball and vice versa and be successful. Jackie Robinson, Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson all come to mind. Even Roy Jones Jr gave semi-pro hoops a crack and was completely underwhelming, and boxing was recently named the toughest sport to compete in.

Why would that be? Probably because basketball requires the most diverse and difficult skill set of all the major team sports. This, I think, isn't even debatable.

You mention golfers as examples of terrific athletes. Forget that to compare team sports to individual sports in this instance is incredibly unfair - no one in their right mind would think golfers are better athletes than NBA players. Golf, essentially, is a variation of two movements. If all basketball boiled down to was shooting uncontested shots from varying lengths and dribbling at different heights while unguarded, I suspect the playing field would be leveled a tad. I will give you that there is no room for a "specialist" in golf, but that is only because it is an individual sport.

If I've misunderstood your argument, please let me know. But as I see it, this sounds like someone who is frustrated at watching seven-footers block the shots of electrifying 5'11" guards and needed an excuse for it.

 
At 9:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sanders and Jackson were both much, MUCH better football players then they were baseball players, however they do need to be given credit for simply being able to play at the Major League level at all. It tells you that both of these men were tremendous athletes but their athleticisim was much better served in the NFL as opposed to MLB where the skills needed to get by are much harder.

if anybody wants to continue this discussion, maybe we should list some multi-sport players and see if we can come to any sort of consensus?

John Elway - NFL HOFer, Yankee farmhand. (made the right choice, I assume)

Danny Ainge - servicable NBA player, Blue Jay farm hand. (made the right choice I assume)

Frank Thomas - future MLB HOFer, played TE with Bo Jackson at Auburn (made the right choice I assume)

Tony Gwynn - player PG at SanDiegoSt, obviously was very athletic despite appearances later in his career. Never having seen him play basketball, I wonder what type of player he would have been.

there are tons more exapmles out there, but I don't want to take up too much space and time (I think I've already done that anyway).

I don't know. I think that baseball players are not as athletic, overall, as basketball players, and probably not football players either, but I do think the skills needed to play baseball are harder then dribbling, running, shooting, jumping, catching, running while carrying a ball, etc.

 
At 6:12 AM, Blogger Dennis Hans said...

While I agree with Anon that MLB players are highly skillful, I think he underestimates the natural and rare raw athleticism that is required to make contact with a 95 mph fastball. You need reflexes that most folks don't have. And to jack that ball over the fence you need magical wrists and forearms. People who can throw 90 mph are extremely rare. Any community, urban, suburban or rural, will have a fair number of very good athletes, but few of them will be blessed with the raw talent to make it to the MLB. Those that do will certainly have to learn and hone a number of skills over many years, but they first must possess those magical arms, wrists, hands and, to a lesser extent, legs.

 
At 6:54 AM, Blogger rayray said...

Many years ago, Ted Williams told me that wrists were way overrated as a power source, he said it was virtually all in the hip turn

 
At 7:24 AM, Anonymous Anthony said...

I think you have to throw the individual sports out of the window when dealing with percentages. It is a smaller segment of the population and skews it.

Basketball players possess a unique combination of size and athleticism (on average). Why we measure athleticism by crossover ability really doesn't make sense. There are tremendous athletes in each of the major (and non-major) sports. It largely depends on how you want to measure "athleticism." If we define it in "normal" ways, like speed, jumping, strength, etc., I would probably look at gymnasts or track and field decatheletes as the best athletes in the world.

However, there is a unique combination of height included for most basketball players that sets them apart FOR THAT REASON.

 
At 10:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I really think this comes down to how you define the word "athletic". If an athlete is someone with great speed, strength, agility, quickness, and jumping ability, then none of us could argue that say, LeBron James is not one of the greatest athletes in the world.

However, "athletic" also has to imply some skill that can't be measured — if you're 6'4", run a 4.0 40, and have a 40-inch vertical, but have no hand-eye or body coordination, you might be athletic, but you're not gonna be a wide receivier or a shooting guard.

I'd assume that I'm better than a handful of NBA players at Baseball, Soccer, Lacrosse, Tennis, Volleyball, or Golf. So who is the better athlete?

Player A:
basketball: 10
baseball: 1
football: 6
golf: 1
hockey: 1
soccer: 2

Player B:
basketball: 6
baseball: 5
football: 3
golf: 5
hocckey: 1
soccer: 5

Of course, Joe Blow might be better than an MLBer at basketball and better than an NFLer at baseball, as well, so this argument is not exclusive to the NBA.

I think the NBA, NFL, and MLB are just like any other segment of the population: Some guys will be great at one sport and horrible at others, some will be great at one sport and above average at others, and some will be above average at a lot of sports.

 
At 10:44 AM, Blogger Enola said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 10:53 AM, Blogger Enola said...

I've never heard of a player in the NBA going on the injured list because he threw his back out while sneezing. I've never heard of a basketball player taking 15 games off because of carpal tunnel syndrome from playing in internet chat rooms.

Basketball players rarely pull hamstrings when compared to baseball players. And I rarely see basketball players looking like David Wells. In fact, the American league has a position devoted to guys who aren't good enough to get on the field other than to hit a ball, or are just too stiff to do so, the DH. If you were to take all the DHs out there and try them at other sports, I doubt they'd be any good.

Pitchers are so called good athletes, but how many of them are batting .200 or above?

Baseball has some great athletes no doubt, ARod, Jeter, Ichiro to name a few. But it has it's share of stiffs as well. Every sport has them.

Clemens may be able to shoot the ball, but could he bring the ball up against full court pressue, set up teammates, and successfully execute the pick and roll while scoring the lane against the likes of Tim Duncan or Ben Wallace?

Highly doubtful.

Football has some of the best athletes you can find in my opinion. You have 6'2" recievers that weigh 230lbs and can run a 40 in 4.3, going over the middle and taking vicious hits from 250 linebackers. You have 300 linemen who pull around and get out in space to clear a path for 220 lb running backs. You have quarterbacks that can throw the ball 70 yards or run a 40 in 4.4. Those are among the greatest athletes in the world.

 
At 12:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

the title of this blog should be revised to: the absolutely insane insights of dennis hans.

this article is ridiculous.

the out-pouring of negative responses should suggest the same.

 
At 1:57 PM, Blogger Joel said...

What about endurance? In high school I played basketball with one of the best baseball players in my state's history. At the end of the basketball season each year he always said he had to go get in 'baseball shape.' This meant putting on 10 pounds and playing video games.

The point here is that each sport requires a unique combination of athleticism and skill.

One interesting point made in the original post was about basketball drawing from a smaller talent pool since individuals must be tall to play. This is true but it cuts both ways. We've seen that as developing countries begin to prosper, they begin to produce more world class athletes. Presumably this is because the younger population is able to spend time practicing as opposed to working. In the case of basketball -- once a kid knows he is going to be tall, he may be more comfortable making the practice commitments required to make it to the next level. For instance, at a very young age, LeBron was able to dedicate himself to basketball because he knew that he could become a world class athlete. It would be much tougher for a baseball player to make that commitment at such a young age -- particularly since many baseball players don't have careers that blossom until much later.

 
At 7:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Enola said...

"Clemens may be able to shoot the ball, but could he bring the ball up against full court pressue, set up teammates, and successfully execute the pick and roll while scoring the lane against the likes of Tim Duncan or Ben Wallace?"

and similarly would Tim Duncan or Ben Wallace be able to make any contact hitting a round ball with a round bat?

highly doubtful.

and it, IMHO, is not because they aren't great athletes, it's because it is a tremendously hard skill that takes a great amount of practice. and frankly thier size simply would hinder their ability to do so.

now back to clemens maybe when he was 32 instead of 42 he would be able to get the ball up court on an NBA floor, but can every spot-up shooter on an NBA roster do what you asked of Clemens? I'm not sure.

Again, I think we are mostly in agreement. I think NBA athletes are phenominal. But, I think that athletisicim doesn't necessarily translate to talent at the MLB level.

as for NFL players. I'm just not convinced. Between NBA, MLB and the NFL, the NFL draws from the smallest pool of talent (the vast majority of NFL players are from the US) where are the NBA and MLB are global games and draw their talent from a much larger pool, making it much harder to be elite in thier sports.

Also, the NFL is the lowest paying league with the shortest career span. You would think that the most superior athletes would be drawn to the NBA or MLB because of those two factors.

 
At 7:44 PM, Anonymous Justin said...

I think it's hilarious that someone would use the HORSE game to say that Roger Clemens could play basketball halfway decently - HE'S NOT BEING DEFENDED!!!

Anyhow, hitting a major league fastball requires optimal genetics just as much as NBA basketball. In studying neuroscience, I got the opportunity to learn about something called "smooth pursuit" that is essentially how many angular degrees per second your eyes can move to maintain fixation on a moving object without switching to jerky saccadic movements during which no visual information is processed. Some people have it in spades and some people just don't - MLB players will be able to track a ball to about five feet from the plate, while normal folks like me will loose it much further out. Thus, while Michael Jordan was amazingly well designed for playing basketball (tall, huge hands, and incredible leaping ability) he just didn't have the eyes to hit a curve ball - which is something even minor league pitchers could figure out and consistently exploit.

Ted Williams reputedly had such incredible smooth pursuit that he could read the writing on a train flying by.

I can't say I've got a definitive answer for what makes someone an athlete and what doesn't, but let's not get all goofy over the unfairness of height and genetics in basketball - athletes from many other sports benefit from the DNA lotery just as much.

 
At 8:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Justin, same anon here that mentioned the game of HORSE. You are absolutely right, it is pretty silly. I acknowledged that it's not that great of point to bring up, but I wasn't saying that because he can beat McGrady at a game of HORSE that he could compete in the NBA. In fact I mentioned that he probably has no chance. The point that I was trying to make is that shooting a basketball is not nearly as difficult a skill to show proficiency at as compared to hitting a baseball or throwing a baseball at a hight speed with good accuracy.

Also keep in mind that Clemens is at least 10 years older then McGrady. I stated that I thought Clemens, at the same age as McGrady, probably had a better chance of filling the 12th spot on an NBA team then McGrady had at filling the final spot on a 11 or 12 man MLB pitching staff.

Now, if McGrady had devoted his whole life to baseball and if Clemens had done likewise with basketball, it is probably more then likely that McGrady has a better chance of playing in MLB, especially considering that he supposedly threw in the 90's in high school.

 
At 8:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Oh and Justin, your comment was extremely insightful. Watching baseball gives most fans the idea that "I could do that too". When in fact, no you can't. And because of this MLB players garner a great deal less of respect from casual sports fans when the talk of athletisicm comes of. I suppose I'm guilty of this too.

thank you for the insight. but I just wanted to defend what I was trying to say about the game of HORSE with the previous comment.

 
At 2:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Your article is RIDICULOUS. I think you need to revisit your definition of athleticism; Dennis, you seem to be confusing it with something called "talent". They're not the same thing, buddy.

 
At 3:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you crazy to even try to compare a 7 foot NBA center to a 5'10 to 6'2 Baseball player? If you compared these so called NBA stiffs to other people of comparable height they are amazeingly athletic. Then compare the 5'10 to 6'2 Baseball players to people of comparable height and you would find that very few of them are considered to be great athletes. As for Clemons playing basketball at any age or even attempting to start playng at 32 would have no chance a bring a ball up court against a NBA guard applying full court pressure or against a team trapping. As for hitting a shot with a defender in his face or even closing out forget it. No Macgrady can't hit against a MLB pticher but given enough tries he might get lucky and hit one. The same could be said for Clemons that given enough shots he might eventuall hit one but neither one would get enough playing time to get the chance. If you want to see who the better athletes are compare players of similar size. The under 6 foot basketball players to the under 6 foot baseball players. Or compare the 6'10 Randy Johnson to the 6"10 Macgrady. You will find that maybe 30 or 40 percent of under 6 foot baseball players are great athletes but closer to 90 percent of under 6 foot basketball players.

 
At 10:56 AM, Blogger Justin said...

Certain sports demand a higher degree of athleticism than others. At the professional level I believe this correlates fairly well to the general athleticism of the players.


1. Rugby. Well-rounded athletes of all shapes and sizes at every position. We do everything everybody else does except hit things with sticks. Essentially, this was what Jim Thorpe played. Not, however, an American sport and therefore probably has no place on this list. Plus I'm biased in favor of.

2. Basketball. Dikembe may appear to have all the coordination of a two-year old but he accomplishes athletic feats with very long, very old arms and legs. Dragging seven feet of ass around all day is, in itself, an athletic feat that 95% of golfers would be hard-pressed to match.

3. American football. Even the fat guys have to move quickly with coordination and are held to an incredibly high standard of decision-making. However, no fitness is demanded except anaerobic. Otherwise I would rate this sport higher.

4. Football/soccer. From the waist down, these are the best athletes on earth. However, we are men of four limbs, for the most part. Plus soccer players are pansies and toughness should be one of the measures of athleticism [remember, rugby player talking].

5. Hockey. I know next to nothing about the sport but it appears to be athletically demanding. However, skating is a sport-specific skill and not something that can be attributed to pure athleticism. i.e. a pure athlete cannot hope to play hockey at all if he has not developed this specific skill. the same is not true of the above sports.

I'm sure I'd miss a few (boxing, MMA?) so I'll skip ahead to

10. Baseball. Outside of shortstops and center fielders, the only athletic demands on baseball players are hand-eye coordination, the ability to generate explosive power with the bat, and throwing accuracy. This is a much shorter list of athletic demands than all of the above sports. [this is where i cough and make a sound like *kruk*]Additionally, hitting the ball is a sport-specific skill. This is why Jordan, an UNDENIABLY AMAZING ATHLETE, was not quite able to play this sport at a professional level.

let's see...
25. Table Tennis. Requires agility, hand-eye coordination, accuracy, even a bit of stamina.

Much more athletically demanding than...
50. Golf. Requires walking and some landscaping knowledge. Hitting the golf ball is an intensively sport-specific skill. Mostly it is not an effort of 'coordination'. The ball is stationary, your feet are stationary: how much coordination does that take?

If you remember Barkley on the court you know he has incredible hand-eye and total-body coordination. Yet he allegedly sucks at golf. It's because he obviously doesn't care enough to improve his stroke.

The sport does reward explosive power, but only once you have learned to hit the ball straight can it go far. [this is the part where i sneeze and make a sound like *fat-ass john daly*]

Golf is certainly too difficult for anybody to be any good at without lots of practice. The same is true of Texas Hold'em. This is in no way a measure of athleticism.

 
At 12:28 PM, Blogger Justin said...

btw I'm not the same Justin who's studying neuroscience.

Author seems to simply be arguing for a different definition of 'athleticism' or of the concept of varying degrees of athleticism.

However, I think we should reject his argument and his apparent definition. It is simply not in line with the word as used by most of the English-speaking world. Most people would agree that athleticism involves physical movement or exertion. Most of the world calls Track&Field 'Athletics' for this reason.

Without going into detail regarding what I would list as athletic feats or worthy measures of athleticism, I don't think it's difficult to understand what I mean when I say that hitting a baseball or a golf ball requires a high degree of specialization across a very narrow band of athletic feats. The vast majority of athletic feats are not required and ultimately rarely seen among even professional athletes who primarily perform these tasks.

Basketball, on the other hand, requires high- to exceptionally high capacity across a broad band of athletic feats. There are basketball players who shoot the ball almost as well as Vijay hits a golf ball. In addition they respond to complex visual stimuli in a dynamic environment, run, jump, move laterally, make quick decisions and more. They do all this for up to three hours of intensity. That's alot of athleticism.

I would argue that Gregg Ostertag is a better athlete than Phil Mickelson. Ostertag only looks like an uncoordinated stiff because guys like Kevin Garnett make the game look so easy.

Of course, I've never seen Lefty do anything but golf. Could be that he's exceptionally quick, strong, and coordinated. He could be a fat Iverson. But we can't know that because golf doesn't demand any capacity in those areas in order to succeed.

 
At 12:46 PM, Blogger Dennis Hans said...

From Chris Ballard's Sports Illustrated artice on Nash and Nowitzki, with insights on "athleticism" and the different ways to define it (I agree with Nash's approach but concede the legitimacy of other, more narrow definitions):

Which brings up the biggest misconception about Nash: that he is an overachieving nonathlete who has made good mostly on smarts and hustle. But to suggest that Nash isn't a good athlete is to define athlete in the narrowest fashion. In many ways Nash is one of the best athletes in the NBA. He probably could have played professional soccer (his brother, Martin, does), and he was an excellent youth hockey player. "He wins at pretty much everything he does," says Whitley, who lists arm wrestling and beer chugging as the only two events in which he can take Nash. "He won't pick up a golf club for nine months, and then he'll shoot in the low 80s. His hand-eye coordination is amazing."

To Nash, the rap on him is a matter of semantics. "In our business people always equate athleticism with explosiveness, not with coordination, agility, footwork or creativity," he says. "I know I could learn to do anything, basically. I've always been able to pick things up athletically, even though I might not be dunking the ball." Even that last statement is not entirely true. At a practice two months ago Nash surprised teammates by dunking twice, once with his left hand off his right foot and once off two feet on an alley-oop from Raja Bell. Neither dunk, Nash takes pains to point out, was what one would call thunderous. "But," he says, "just barely still counts."
[end of excerpt]
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/chris_ballard/04/17/friendly.fire0423/index.html

 
At 12:50 PM, Blogger Dennis Hans said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

 
At 12:56 PM, Blogger Dennis Hans said...

Sorry. HERE is the link.

 
At 7:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It seems as though a few people are getting very bent out of shape about this.

Again, using what I think is the traditional definition of athleticism, I believe that NBA players are the best athletes around. Mr. Hans can say that the skills needed to excel at other "skill sports" should be considered athletic ability as well, but I'm not yet convinced that that is the case.

But, all that being said, I still believe that the skills needed to compete at the Major League level in baseball are vastly more difficult to hone then skills needed to compete in the NBA or the NFL. This is all I've been trying to argue. I know many here will still disagree, but I believe this to be true.

 
At 8:33 AM, Anonymous 出張ホスト said...

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At 7:32 AM, Anonymous 家出 said...

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At 8:21 AM, Anonymous 救援部 said...

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At 7:43 AM, Anonymous 倶楽部 said...

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At 7:38 AM, Anonymous プロフ公開 said...

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At 7:51 AM, Anonymous 素人 said...

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At 7:40 AM, Anonymous SM度チェッカー said...

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At 7:48 AM, Anonymous セフレ said...

男性なら一人くらいは作ってみたいセフレですが、実は女性もいつでもSEXしたいときにできる友達がほしいと思っているのです。そのような彼女たちの欲求を満たしてあげませんか

 
At 7:06 AM, Anonymous デリバリーホスト said...

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At 7:42 AM, Anonymous チェッカー said...

SM度チェッカーで隠された性癖をチェック!外見では分からない男女のSM指数をチェックして相性のいい相手を見つけ、SMプレイしてみよう!合コンや飲み会で盛り上がること間違いなしのおもしろツールをみんなとやってみよう

 
At 7:21 AM, Anonymous 熟女サークル said...

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At 7:08 AM, Anonymous グリー said...

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At 6:35 AM, Anonymous セレブ said...

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At 7:46 AM, Anonymous プロフ said...

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At 6:18 AM, Anonymous ゲイ said...

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At 6:27 AM, Anonymous 家出 said...

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At 8:49 AM, Anonymous 素人 said...

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At 6:56 AM, Anonymous 公開プロフ said...

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At 6:12 AM, Anonymous 高額アルバイト said...

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At 5:31 AM, Anonymous 出張ホスト said...

女性会員様増加につき、出張ホストのアルバイトが不足中です。ホテルや女性の自宅に出向き、彼女たちの欲望を満たすお手伝いをしてくれる男性アルバイトをただいま募集しております。興味のある方はTOPページをご覧ください

 
At 6:49 AM, Anonymous 友達募集 said...

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At 6:12 AM, Anonymous 家出掲示板 said...

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At 7:49 AM, Anonymous 童貞 said...

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At 5:54 AM, Anonymous 乱交パーティー said...

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At 6:19 AM, Anonymous 家出 said...

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At 6:26 AM, Anonymous gree said...

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At 7:24 AM, Anonymous プロフ said...

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At 7:22 AM, Anonymous 出張ホスト said...

女性向け風俗サイトで出張ホストをしてみませんか?時給2万円以上の高額アルバイトです。無料登録をしてあとは女性からの呼び出しを待つだけでOK、お試し登録も歓迎です。興味をもたれた方は今すぐどうぞ。

 
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At 7:23 AM, Anonymous 若妻 said...

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At 8:56 AM, Anonymous 家出 said...

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At 7:24 AM, Anonymous お宝映像 said...

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At 6:37 AM, Anonymous 熟女 said...

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At 10:57 AM, Anonymous エロ漫画 said...

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At 7:12 AM, Anonymous 1人H said...

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At 6:00 AM, Anonymous 逆¥交際 said...

今話題の逆¥交際!あなたはもう体験しましたか?当サイトでは逆援希望の女性が男性を自由に選べるシステムを採用しています。成功を収めた女性ほど金銭面は豊かですが愛に飢えているのです。いますぐTOPページからどうぞ

 
At 7:06 AM, Anonymous 豪華賞品 said...

只今、シャープ32型液晶テレビ、PS3等、豪華商品が当たるキャンペーンを実施中!まずは欲しい商品を選び、メールアドレスを登録して無料エントリー!その場で当たりが出たら賞品ゲットできます。抽選に外れた方もWチャンスで商品券等が当たります。ぜひチャレンジして下さい

 
At 7:13 AM, Anonymous 副収入 said...

一夜限りの割り切ったお付き合いで副収入が得られる交際サイトのご案内です。アルバイト感覚での挑戦もできる、安心の無料登録システムを採用しておりますので、興味のある方は当サイトへぜひどうぞ

 
At 9:03 AM, Anonymous メル友 said...

彼氏にDVされて、ちょっと男性不信です。でも、恋愛して彼氏も作りたいと思ってるので、優しく接してくれる人を探してます。連絡待ってまぁす! pretty-toy-poodle@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 6:56 AM, Anonymous 神待ち said...

家出をして不安な少女たちの書込が神待ち掲示板に増えています。一日遊んであげたり、家に招いて泊まらせてあげるだけで、彼女たちはあなたに精一杯のお礼をしてくれるはずです

 
At 6:35 AM, Anonymous 乱交 said...

全国乱交連盟主催、スワップパーティーに参加しませんか?初めての方でも安心してお楽しみいただけるパーティーです。参加費は無料、開催地も全国に120ヶ所ありますので気軽に参加してお楽しみ下さい

 
At 6:38 AM, Anonymous アブノーマル said...

SM・露出・スワッピング・レズ・女装・フェチなど…普通じゃ物足りないあなたが思う存分楽しめる世界!貴方だけのパートナーを探してみませんか?アブノーマルでしか味わえない至福の時をお過ごしください

 
At 6:18 AM, Anonymous セレブラブ said...

セレブラブでは毎月10万円を最低ラインとする謝礼を得て、セレブ女性に快楽を与える仕事があります。無料登録した後はメールアプローチを待つだけでもOK、あなたも当サイトで欲求を満たしあう関係を作ってみませんか

 
At 8:54 AM, Anonymous 裏バイト said...

簡単に大金を稼ぐことができる裏バイトがあります。女性が好きな方、健康な方なら日給3万円以上の収入を得ることも可能です。興味のある方はHPをご覧ください

 
At 8:30 AM, Anonymous 救援部 said...

一人Hを男性に見てもらうことで興奮する女性が多数いることをご存じですか?当サイト、救援部ではそんな女性たちが多数登録されています。男性会員様は彼女たちのオ○ニーを見てあげるだけで謝礼を貰えるシステムとなっております。

 
At 8:27 AM, Anonymous メル友募集 said...

冬に1人ボッチで家でご飯とかオヤスミなんて寂しすぎるょ~~っ!こんなところに書き込んだら削除されちゃいそうだけど少しでもきっかけ作らなくっちゃと思って書いてみましたっ!!気軽に会ったり出来たりする方ってこの掲示板見てませんか~!?良かったらメールくださいね★フリメだったら私気付けないんで携帯のアドレス乗せておくねっ!! love-sexy@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 7:19 AM, Anonymous 失恋 said...

失恋は心に深い傷を残します。その傷を癒す特効薬、それは新しい出会い。あなたの心を癒す、素晴らしい出会いを当サイトで見つけて、笑顔を取り戻してください

 
At 6:48 AM, Anonymous 高額バイト said...

高額バイトのご案内です。欲求不満になっている女性を癒して差し上げるお仕事です。参加にあたり用紙、学歴等は一切問いません。高収入を稼ぎたい、女性に興味のある方はぜひどうぞ

 
At 7:31 AM, Anonymous 交際 said...

スタービーチの突然の閉鎖、優良な友達探しサイトが無くなってしまいましたが、新生・スタービーチがここに復活しました!、進化を遂げた新生スタービーチをやってみませんか?理想の交際探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう

 
At 7:54 AM, Anonymous 神待ちサイト said...

「家出してるんで、泊まるところないですか?」家出救済神待ちサイトには毎日このような女の子からの書き込みがされています。彼女たちはホテルや家に泊まらせてあげたり、遊んであげるだけであなたに精一杯のお礼をしてくれるはずです

 
At 7:48 AM, Anonymous 露出 said...

普通のプレイじゃ絶対味わえない快感、それは野外露出プレイ。最初は嫌がっていた女も次第にハマっていって、その内それが快感に変わってきます。野外露出プレイで興奮度アップ間違い無し

 
At 7:15 AM, Anonymous 友達 said...

早い時期に結婚してしまって、少し後悔しているんです。私は、今の夫しか経験が無くって、このままでいいのかなって…。思うようになってきてしまって…冒険はしたいんですけど、やっぱりばれたりしたら怖いので…割り切りで会える方って居ませんでしょうか?連絡お待ちしてますね♪最初に年齢を教えてくれるとうれしいです。pop-music-lo-ve@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 3:54 AM, Anonymous 人妻 said...

Hな人妻たちの社交場、割り切った付き合いも当然OK!欲求不満のエロ人妻たちを好みに合わせてご紹介します。即会い、幼な妻、セレブ、熟女、SM妻、秘密、以上6つのジャンルから遊んでみたい女性を選んでください

 
At 3:20 AM, Anonymous サイドビジネス said...

1日5万円~が手に入るサイドビジネスのご案内です。男狂いのセレブ女性はネットで知り合った男を次々に金の力で食い散らかしています。そんな女性を手玉にとって大金を稼いでみませんか

 
At 3:27 AM, Anonymous Hチェッカー said...

みんなで楽しめるHチェッカー!簡単な設問に答えるだけであなたの隠されたH度数がわかっちゃいます!あの人のムッツリ度もバレちゃう診断を今すぐ試してみよう

 
At 4:05 AM, Anonymous 家出 said...

最近流行の家出掲示板では、各地のネットカフェ等を泊り歩いている家出少女のメッセージが多数書き込みされています。彼女たちはお金がないので掲示板で知り合った男性の家にでもすぐに泊まりに行くようです。あなたも書き込みに返事を返してみませんか

 
At 4:11 AM, Anonymous 高収入アルバイト said...

性欲を持て余し、欲求不満になっている女性を金銭の対価を得て、癒して差し上げるお仕事です。参加にあたり用紙、学歴等は一切問いません。高収入アルバイトに興味のある方はぜひどうぞ

 
At 4:07 AM, Anonymous 高級チェリー said...

童貞を奪ってみたい女性たちは、男性にとって「初体験」という一生に一度だけの、特別なイベントを共に心に刻み込むことを至上の喜びにしているのです。そんな童貞好きな女性たちと高級チェリーで最高のSEXをしてみませんか

 
At 4:02 AM, Anonymous 困っています。 said...

最近寂しくて困っています。夜一人で寝るのが凄く寂しいです…隣で添い寝してくれる男性いませんか?見た目とか特に気にしません。優しくて一緒にいてくれる方大歓迎☆一緒に布団で温まりましょう♪shart.enamorado.de-me@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 4:20 AM, Anonymous 副収入 said...

一晩の割り切ったお付き合いで副収入が得られるサイトのご案内です。アルバイト感覚での挑戦もできる、安心の無料登録システムを採用しておりますので、興味のある方は当サイトをぜひご覧ください

 
At 2:46 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

復活、スタービーチ!日本最大の友達探しサイトがついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタビをやってみませんか?理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう

 
At 3:07 AM, Anonymous モテる度チェッカー said...

なかなか彼氏、彼女が出来ない君達の深層心理を徹底解明♪みんなでモテる度チェックをやって結果交換も自由、合コンや休み時間はモテる度チェックで暇つぶし!次にモテ期が訪れる瞬間をズバリ診断しちゃいます

 
At 3:36 AM, Anonymous ¥倶楽部 said...

出会ぃも今は¥倶楽部!オンナがオトコを買う時代になりました。当サイトでは逆援希望の女性が男性を自由に選べるシステムを採用しています。経済的に成功を収めた女性ほど金銭面は豊かですが愛に飢えているのです。いますぐTOPページからどうぞ

 
At 4:41 AM, Anonymous 野外露出 said...

今迄は野外露出がマイナスイメージと囚われがちですが、実際は開放的な気分になり有名人のヌーディストが、オープンになる事を推奨してるぐらいです。このサイトをキッカケに知り合った娘達と野外で楽しみませんか

 
At 6:28 AM, Anonymous 高級 said...

どうしても相手がセレブだと高級感が有り、近付きにくいと思われがちですが、実際はただ欲望のままに快楽を追い求める、セレブとは掛け離れた女性が居るだけです。今こそ自分の欲望を満たすときです

 
At 3:59 AM, Anonymous 人妻 said...

最近旦那とマンネリで全然Hしてません。正直もうかなり欲求不満です…誰か相手してくれる方いませんか?空いている時間は多いと思うので都合は合わせやすいと思います。お互い楽しめる関係になりたいな。人妻でも平気な人いたら是非相手してください☆一応18歳以上の人限定でお願いします。上はどこまででも大丈夫なんで excellent.lady@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 3:31 AM, Anonymous ライブチャット said...

当サイトでは無料でオナ動画を見ることができます。また、ライブチャット機能でリアルタイムオ○ニーを見るチャンスも高く、興奮間違いなしです。また、一人Hのお手伝いを希望される女性もあり、お手伝いいただけた方には謝礼をお支払いしております

 
At 3:32 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

日本最大、だれもが知っている出会い系スタービーチがついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタビをやってみませんか?趣味の合う理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビで遊んでみよう

 
At 3:22 AM, Anonymous モテる度 said...

あなたの異性からのモテ度数を診断できる、モテる度チェッカー!日頃モテモテで充実しているあなたもそうでないニートの方も隠されたモテスキルを測定して結果を活用し、今以上にモッテモテになること間違いなし

 
At 4:15 AM, Anonymous 救援部 said...

女性のオナニーを助ける場が救援部です。ここに所属してる娘のオナニーを見て気に入ったら、実際に会ってオナニーを手伝っても良いし、エッチしても良し、これで報酬Get出来るんですから美味しいバイトですよ

 
At 4:09 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

一時代を築いたスタービーチは閉鎖になりましたが、もう一度楽しい思いをしたい、もう一度出会いたいと思う有志により再度復活しました。本家以上に簡単に出会えて楽しい思いを約束します

 
At 3:09 AM, Anonymous アダルトSNS said...

昨日友達とセフレを作るのが難しいな~、出会い系サイトの規制が厳しいはとか話してて、アダルトSNSのサイトが今のところは狙い目やって聞いたから使ってみたけど、近場で楽にセフレを作れてホンマ手軽やはwww

 
At 2:55 AM, Anonymous 女に生れて来たからには!! said...

誰にも言えない秘密があります。実はとってもHなんです、せっかく女として生まれたからにはアブノーマルな世界に飛び込んでみたいです☆普段では考えられないプレイを思う存分楽しみ、経験したいんです♪快楽に溺れさせてくれませんか?一緒に感じ合いましょう!!都合はつくのですぐに時間を合わせられます。18歳よりも上の方がいいです!! quietness@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 3:19 AM, Anonymous 流出 said...

流出サイトでは、有名人から素人までの他では見れない秘蔵の動画を入手しています。何より素人が相手の場合に限り、アポを採る事も可能です。動画でお手軽に抜いて、抜き足らない場合は、女の子にハメて来て下さい

 
At 2:33 AM, Anonymous グリー said...

日本最大級、だれもが知っている出会い系スタービーチがついに復活、グリーより面白い新生スタビをやってみませんか?趣味の合う理想のパートナー探し、合コンパーティーに興味がある方はぜひ無料登録してみてください。楽しかった頃のスタビで遊んでみよう

 
At 3:08 AM, Anonymous SM度チェッカー said...

あなたのSM度を簡単診断、SM度チェッカーで隠された性癖をチェック!真面目なあの娘も夜はドS女王様、ツンデレなあの子も実はイジめて欲しい願望があるかも!?コンパや飲み会で盛り上がること間違いなしのおもしろツールでみんなと盛り上がろう

 
At 2:39 AM, Anonymous リッチセックス said...

女性には風俗がない!そんな悩みを持つセレブ女たちは、リッチセックスでお金を使い自分を満たします。金銭面では豊かですが、愛に飢えている彼女たちを癒して高額な報酬を手に入れてみませんか

 
At 2:35 AM, Anonymous 神待ち said...

女子○生の個人情報公開!?遊び盛りの神待ち女子○生の写メ・アドレス・番号を公開中!好みの女の子を選んで直メ・直電で今すぐ待ち合わせしよう

 
At 2:44 AM, Anonymous 高級チェリー said...

高級チェリーの冬は童貞卒業のシーズンです。童貞を食べたい女性達もウズウズしながら貴方との出会いを待っています。そんな女性達に童貞を捧げ、貴方もハッピーライフを送ってみませんか

 
At 2:20 AM, Anonymous 友達募集中 said...

初書き込みで申し訳ないんですが、都合のいい男性探しています。不況の中でも会社が高成長してて、忙しい毎日です。お陰でプライベートが充実していなくって、溜まる一方です。財産的にも多少余裕が今のところあるのでお礼もできます。何より、この書き込みが読まれているのかちょっと怪しいですけど…。アドレス置いとくので、消されないうちにメールくれたら嬉しいです。inspiration.you@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 3:31 AM, Anonymous 出張ホスト said...

結婚してから女としての喜びを失った玉の輿女性達、エリート旦那のそつのない動きには満足できるはずもなく、時間を持て余すお昼時に旦那のお金を使い、出張ホストサービスを楽しむそうでございます。今回も10万円での愛を承っております。癒しの一時をご一緒して謝礼を貰ってくださいませ

 
At 3:08 AM, Anonymous gree said...

だれもが知っている日本で一番有名な出会い系スタービーチがついに復活、greeより面白い新生スタビをやってみませんか?理想のパートナー探し、合コンパーティーに興味がある方はぜひ無料登録してみてください

 
At 2:30 AM, Anonymous 玉の輿度チェッカー said...

当サイトは、みんなが玉の輿に乗れるかどうか診断できる性格診断のサイトです。ホントのあなたをズバリ分析しちゃいます!玉の輿度チェッカーの診断結果には、期待以上の意外な結果があるかも

 
At 2:44 AM, Anonymous デリバリーホスト said...

男性との甘い一時が奥様達には必要になっております。刺激のない私生活はとても辛く、ココロもカラダもストレスが堪る一方、そんな中にデリバリーホストに癒しを求めている奥様、セレブ女性は大変増えてきており、男性の方が不足状態です。女性達の癒しとなる仕事をあなた様も一度体験してみてはいかがでしょうか

 
At 1:52 AM, Anonymous リア友 said...

メル友らんどでは誰でも気軽にメル友が作れちゃう、参加無料でいつでも利用可能なコミュニティサイト♪ご近所の気の合うリア友や、真面目に彼氏彼女探しなど、楽しみ方は無限大!自分にぴったりの相手を見つけちゃおう

 
At 3:22 AM, Anonymous 出会い said...

大好評の逆ナンイベントが毎週開催決定!素敵な出会いのきっかけ探し・アイナビにきませんか?積極的な出会いを求める人達なら無料参加OK!あなたもほんの少しの勇気で素敵な彼氏・彼女をGETしちゃおう

 
At 1:55 AM, Anonymous お家遊びに来てくれる人いないかなぁ? said...

一人暮らし寂しいよ~(泣)誰かお家遊びにきてくれないかなぁ?休みの日とかも全然予定ありません。料理作るの得意だから来てくれたら食べてほしいな♪見た目は悪くないと思うから安心してください!(笑)細かい事は気にしないけど18歳未満の人は微妙かな、気軽に仲良くしてください milky-yukinko@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 2:27 AM, Anonymous 神待ち said...

冬に1人でネカフェとか寂しすぎやし、でも自分から積極的に声を掛けれる娘ばかりと違い、内気な娘は神待ちと言われるように自分の事を助けてくれるのを待ってるんです。貴方の優しさを待ってる娘は意外な程多いよ

 
At 2:29 AM, Anonymous 家出掲示板 said...

あなたのご近所の女の子たちと無料でカンタンにであえる家出掲示板!大学生・専門学生、まさかの女子○生まで!ちょっとしたお小遣い稼ぎに全国の女の子たちが殺到中!ノーピンクからちょっぴりHなお誘いまで…自分に合ったコを選んでメッセしちゃおう

 
At 2:43 AM, Anonymous 名言チェッカー said...

簡単な設問に答えるだけで貴方にふさわしい名言がわかる、名言チェッカー!あなたの本当の性格を見抜いちゃいます。世界の偉人達が残した名言にはどことなく重みがあるものです

 
At 3:07 AM, Anonymous 1人H said...

1人Hを男性に見てもらうことで興奮する女性が多数いることをご存じですか?当サイトにはそんな女性たちが多数登録されています。男性は彼女たちの1人Hを見てあげるだけで謝礼を貰えるシステムとなっております

 
At 2:21 AM, Anonymous モバゲー said...

最高の遊び場、スタービーチ!日本最大の友達探しサイトがついに復活、モバゲーより面白い新生スタビをやってみませんか?理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう

 
At 3:26 AM, Anonymous 円倶楽部 said...

当逆円倶楽部ではリッチなセレブと割り切りでお付き合いしてくださる男性を募集しています。女性の性欲を満たし、高額報酬をもらって楽しく暮らしてみませんか?興味がある方はアルバイト感覚での1日登録もできる、安心の無料入会を今すぐどうぞ。

 
At 3:20 AM, Anonymous 旦那以外とエッチしたい said...

人妻だけどセフレ募集しちゃいます!こんな女嫌かなぁ?新しい刺激欲しいし旦那以外の男性としてみたいな。エッチのテクはそれなりに自信あるよ、フェラとか上手いってよく褒められます。年上は何歳まででもOKだけど年下は18歳までが限界かな、楽しみたい人いたら気軽によろしくね♪ enjoy-smile.of.happiness@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 2:42 AM, Anonymous 神待ち said...

家出中の少女たちの書込が神待ち掲示板に増えています。ご飯を食べさせてあげたり、家に招いて泊まらせてあげるだけで、彼女たちはあなたに精一杯のお礼をしてくれるはずです

 
At 3:43 AM, Anonymous 出会い said...

セフレ専門出会い喫茶エンジョイラブは店舗型出会い喫茶 ENJOYグループのネット1号店としてオープンしました♪セフレ探しを目的とした出会いの専門店です。Hに満足していない女性達が多数登録。今すぐ即アポOK表示のHな女の子を新着順で紹介中です

 
At 3:00 AM, Anonymous 熟女 said...

熟女だって性欲がある、貴方がもし人妻とSEXしてお金を稼ぎたいのなら、一度当サイトをご利用ください。当サイトには全国各地からお金持ちのセレブたちが集まっています。女性から男性への報酬は、 最低15万円からと決めております。興味のある方は一度当サイト案内をご覧ください

 
At 3:37 AM, Anonymous mコミュ said...

mコミュで理想の恋人を見つけよう!某女性誌に紹介され、女の子の登録者が急増中です。新しい出会いの場としてあまり知られていない今ならメールの返信がすぐに返ってくるかも!?無料登録から始めてみよう

 
At 3:23 AM, Anonymous 天然娘 said...

さびしがりやの素人女性や天然娘にメールやチャットで会話してあげるだけで儲かる新感覚のアルバイト「素人ホスト」!未経験者の方でも簡単、手軽に出来るお仕事です。詳細は当サイトでご確認ください

 
At 2:34 AM, Anonymous 真剣に向き合ってはくれませんか? said...

初めての書き込みでちょっぴり緊張してます、男の人と出会うきっかけがなくて!こう言う場をかりてみるのもひとつのきっかけですよね。周りの友達は彼氏とラブラブの毎日、あたしもラブラブな毎日を過ごしたい、21歳の恥ずかしがり屋なんで、年上で引っ張ってくれる人がいいです。メールしてくれたら返事は確実だよ♪ワクワクしながらメール待ってます love.love.happy-@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 3:14 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

復活、スタービーチ!日本最大のであい系がついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタビをやってみませんか?理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう

 
At 3:23 AM, Anonymous 神待ち said...

家出・神待ちサイト神風は家出少女が集まる人気サイトをクチコミから集めた家出サイト専用のリンク集です。風のように現れる神となってあなたも家出少女を救ってあげて下さい

 
At 3:18 AM, Anonymous 右脳左脳チェッカー said...

ランク王国でもご紹介された右脳左脳チェッカー、天才肌を見分ける楽しい盛り上がりツールとして今、支持をうけております。みんなでやれば盛り上がる事は間違いなし診断結果でも全国ランキングなどにランクインされて面白さ倍増!話のネタに一度はどうぞ

 
At 2:59 AM, Anonymous セレブ said...

ゴージャスなリッチセレブリティ達のアダルトコミュニティーサイト!お金と時間に優雅なセレブ女性達はアダルトコミュで男性との秘密交際を楽しんでいるのです

 
At 4:15 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

釦覀꟣芻菣芯맣莑볣莈諣莼鋦躢鷣膆臨ꪰ苣膌藣膡飣膳鿣芹뿣莼鏣莼臣膮ꧦ뒻臯벁诣莥볣芹뿣莼鏣莼臣膧ꫤ붓鏣膮꟣膂蓣芒鿦蒟韣膦诣膕

 
At 3:42 AM, Anonymous 彼氏募集 said...

ゅめの*。ぉ部屋☆+.プロフ作りました♪彼氏募集中wバレンタイン前なのに→アソンでくれるヒトいなくて(泣)寂しいデス↓メアドを乗せておくので遊んでもイイヨ~ってヒト、メルちょうだいネ☆

 
At 7:16 AM, Anonymous 飲み友募集 said...

飲み友探してまーす☆気軽に楽しく一緒に飲みに行きませんか?(*^_^*)そんなに強くはないけどね(*μ_μ) イイお店とか知ってたら案内してほしいです★時間は夜遅くでも空いてますよヽ(^o^)丿飲み友探しなんで二十歳以上の人限定ー(*・人・*) 年は23歳だよ!メールよろしくでーす! red-rose.ray@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 4:55 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

新しくなったスタービーチは新しいであいのカタチを提案します★ あなたに出逢いたい人がここにいます。

 
At 4:27 AM, Anonymous 神待ち said...

神待ちサイト ガールズBBSは家出少女を救う神待ち専用の掲示板です!登録無料で家出少女と出会えるチャンス

 
At 4:16 AM, Anonymous 勝ち組負け組チェッカー said...

人生の勝者&敗者を容赦なく測定できてしまう勝ち組負け組チェッカー!資本主義の日本で貴方は果たして勝ち組になれているのか?あるいは…気になった人はぜひチャレンジしてみてください

 
At 4:21 AM, Anonymous 高額アルバイト said...

高額アルバイトでは大人の恋愛を求めた風俗嬢や社長令嬢といった女性達が多数登録されております。裏風俗とまで呼ばれる逆援助の交際をあなた様も求めてみませんか

 
At 4:33 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

伝説で終わらせるにはもったいない。完全無料でさらに面白くなったスタービーチの再来!実績と信頼の上に成り立つスタービーチならではのであい!安心してご利用いただけるブランドだからこそ自信を持ってお勧めします

 
At 3:23 AM, Anonymous 高級セレブ said...

ゴージャスなリッチセレブリティ達のアダルトコミュニティーサイト!お金と時間に優雅な高級セレブ女性達はアダルトコミュで男性との秘密交際を楽しんでいるのです

 
At 2:54 AM, Anonymous メル友 said...

変な性癖があるのはどう思いますか?私、獣姦とか好きなんです…いきなりこんな話驚きますよね…引きましたか?Σ(゜□゜(゜□゜*)野外とかにも興味があります!変態チックなのもたまにはいいですよ\(^-^ )こんな私にメールしてくれるとうれしいです。メールから色んな話しましょ(^_^)年上の人がいいです、私は27歳ですよ!それでは、メール待ってますね sasisuseso309@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 3:29 AM, Anonymous ツイッター said...

ツイッターで始まるであいの掲示板は新感覚のコミュニティ☆男女とも無料の年齢認証登録だけで即参加!!掲示板に参加後はプロフ作成やお友達検索、メッセージの交換等など多彩なコンテンツで貴方のであいをしっかりサポート

 
At 3:43 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

皆様お待たせしました!!伝説の出合い系サイト、スタービーチが遂に復活!あの興奮を再び体験できる!思う存分出合いをお楽しみください

 
At 3:14 AM, Anonymous 精神年齢チェッカー said...

精神年齢チェッカーであなたの実際の精神年齢が、簡単な質問でわかっちゃいます。普段は子供っぽいあの人も実は大人の思考の持ち主で子供っぽく振舞ってるだけかも知れませんよ

 
At 3:34 AM, Anonymous 彼氏募集 said...

ゅめのプロフ作りました☆バレンタイン前なのにアソンでくれるヒトいなくて(泣)寂しいデス↓↓遊んでもイイヨ~ってヒト、メルちょうだいネ

 
At 4:23 AM, Anonymous モバゲー said...

今やモバゲーは押しも押されもせぬ人気SNS!当然出会いを求めてる人も多い!そこで男女が出逢えるコミュニティーが誕生!ここなら友達、恋人が簡単にできちゃいますよ

 
At 3:13 AM, Anonymous 救援部 said...

今や女の子のひとりHは常識。しかもお金を払って実際にひとりHを見てもらい、恥ずかしがるのや褒められるのが興奮のツボ!そんな彼女達とオナメールやオナ○ー救援部でHなことしてみませんか

 
At 3:27 AM, Anonymous 彼氏募集 said...

今まで趣味とか仕事に夢中になってて気付いたら一人ぼっちで彼氏いなーい(_´Д`)恋愛からしばらく離れてたから…時々さびしくなっちゃったりするんだよね( p_q)同じくさびしーって人いる?けっこう甘えたりするところがあるから大人の人が好きだよ☆だから、年下はゴメンネ(。-人-。) メアドつけておくから気に入ってくれたらメールしてね!待ってまーす hahahanoha88@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 3:31 AM, Anonymous コンパ said...

今、お部屋コンパがアツイ!!毎日あなたのお部屋がコンパ会場に!インターネットで即参加!招待状がなくてもスグに使えるSNSコミュニティ☆

 
At 4:24 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

今度のスタービーチはここがスゴイ!モバイルだけじゃなくPCでも簡単に相手を探せる!新しいスタービーチは出会いの確率がグンとUP☆

 
At 3:33 AM, Anonymous 人生の値段チェッカー said...

あなたの生きてきた人生の値段を診断できちゃう、人生の値段チェッカー!ここであなたが今までに生きてきた時間に値段をつけちゃおう!コンパにネタに大盛り上がり確定のツールで盛り上がろう

 
At 3:25 AM, Anonymous 素人 said...

お金持ち人妻や熟女達は素人ホストに抱いてもらう喜びを忘れられず、性欲を満たしています。お金に困った素人男性達は当サイトで人妻さん達を抱いて高額報酬をいただいてください

 
At 4:11 AM, Anonymous グリー said...

グリーもそこそこ出逢えますが、であいを求めるならやっぱりスタービーチが一番!登録無料で楽しい時間を過ごしたい方にはもってこいのサイト。これで恋人、セクフレを作るチャンスが大幅アップ

 
At 3:13 AM, Anonymous 家出 said...

これから家出したい人や現在家出している人達と、家出少女を救いたい人を繋げるSOS掲示板です

 
At 3:20 AM, Anonymous 恋愛のこと教えてねヽ(^◇^*)/ said...

仕事や趣味に夢中になってたらいつの間にか独りきりになってた…彼氏も長いこといなくて恋愛から離れてました( ´_ゝ`)そろそろ恋愛にも夢中になりたいけど男の子とどうせっしたらいいか教えて下さい(-^▽^-) 動物好きだから、年上で動物好きな人仲良くしてね(。・w・。 ) ペット連れて散歩なんていいよね!!まずはのんびりメールからお願いします sweet-rose.perfume@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 3:23 AM, Anonymous モバゲー said...

今やモバゲーは押しも押されもせぬ人気SNS!当然であいを求めてる人も多い!そこで男女が出逢えるコミュニティーが誕生!ここなら友達、恋人が簡単にできちゃいますよ

 
At 3:55 AM, Anonymous gree said...

greeやモバゲー、mixiよりアツイ!!スタービーチが新しくなって登場!!復活したスタービーチで新しいでぁいを見つけよう

 
At 3:23 AM, Anonymous ¥倶楽部 said...

セクフレ掲示板、¥倶楽部で大人の恋愛をしてみませんか?割り切ったセクフレと快楽のみを求めた恋愛をしてくださいませ

 
At 3:15 AM, Anonymous モバゲー said...

モバゲーやミクシィ、グリーでであえなかった人もNEWスタービーチなら確実にであいをゲット!無料年齢認証登録であの感動が今、再び蘇る

 
At 4:00 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

最も復活してほしかったサイトでダントツのNO.1であるスタービーチがとうとう復活!!以前にもましてご利用者様に満足していただける最高のシステムになっております。思う存分新しくなったスタービーチをお楽しみください

 
At 2:58 AM, Anonymous 援助スポット said...

最低10万円から交際がスタートする援助スポット。不満を持つ熟女達が若い男性を求めて集まっております。熟女サークル逆¥交際であなたもリッチな生活を送ってみませんか

 
At 4:05 AM, Anonymous 恋愛 said...

初めましていずみって言います☆1年半以上恋してません…(/∇≦\)元彼と付き合ってた時にあんまり会えなくて恋愛してた感じがなかった(;‾ ‾)それから臆病になってたけど長いこと彼がいないからそろそろホンキで恋したいなーなんて思ってますo(^-^o)けっこう天然入ってるから大人で引っ張ってくれる人で年上の人と仲良くしたいです☆気になった人はメールしてね fly.me.so.high-@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 3:21 AM, Anonymous スタビ said...

満を持してのスタビ復活劇!!ここから刻まれる、新たな一コマ。スタービーチがあなたの歴史を生み出します

 
At 4:37 AM, Anonymous mコミュ said...

大人気コミュニティーサイトとなったモバゲー!であいを求める人も当然多い!!そこでであい専門のコミュニティーサイトmコミュを発信!ここでカレシ彼女をGETしよう♪

 
At 4:07 AM, Anonymous モテる度チェッカー said...

なかなか彼氏、彼女が出来ない君達の深層心理を徹底解明♪みんなでモテる度チェッカーをやって結果交換も自由、ゴウコンや休み時間はモテる度チェックで暇つぶし!次にモテ期が訪れる瞬間をズバリ診断、チャンスを逃すな

 
At 3:28 AM, Anonymous 恋人契約 said...

今話題の恋人契約!!お金をもらってセクースできる!!RICHではセレブに援助してもらい至福のセクースライフを楽しめます。ヤりたい願望は女性だって同じ…そんな切実な思いに気づいてあげてくれませんか

 
At 3:22 AM, Anonymous オナニー said...

今や女の子のオナニーは常識。しかもお金を払って実際にオナニーを見てもらい、恥ずかしがるのや褒められるのが興奮のツボ!そんな彼女達とオナメールやオナニー救援でHなことしてみませんか

 
At 3:21 AM, Anonymous 手料理 said...

つい最近独り暮らし始めましたヾ(〃^∇^)ノお家で料理作っても食べてくれる人がいない(´−`)彼氏いないからあたしと過ごしてくれる人いませんか?手料理ごちそうするよぉ!よかったらメールして下さい(o~ー~)年下の人はゴメンネ…(*_ _)人メール待ってます♪september9-love9@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 3:20 AM, Anonymous mコミュ said...

PC対応!掲示板コミュニティサイトmコミュでであいを満喫しませんか?素敵なであいをあなたにお届けいたします

 
At 4:03 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

復活、スタービーチ!日本最大の友達探しサイトがついに復活、進化を遂げた新生スタビをやってみませんか?理想のパートナー探しの手助け、合コンパーティー等も随時開催しています。楽しかった頃のスタビを体験しよう

 
At 2:40 AM, Anonymous SM度チェッカー said...

SM度かんたん診断、真面目なあの娘も夜はドS女王様、ツンデレなあの娘も実はイジめて欲しい願望があるかも!気になる娘の本性をSM度チェッカーで暴きだせ

 
At 3:55 AM, Anonymous ギャル said...

ギャルは素人ホストに抱いてもらう喜びを忘れられず、性欲を満たしています。お金に困った素人男性達は当サイトでギャル達を抱いて高額報酬をいただいてください

 
At 4:48 AM, Anonymous モバゲー said...

モバゲーで合コンや婚活パーティーを開催中!イベント盛りだくさんのモバゲーを初めてみませんか

 
At 4:24 AM, Anonymous 出張ホスト said...

男性が主役です! 女性会員様からの謝礼は貴方次第、ご近所出張ホストは女性向けフ一ゾクの決定版!エロい一時を求めて男性様との触れ合いを秘密厳守で探しておられます。エロマダム様達と過ごす癒しの一時を…エロい人妻様会員様を満足させてあげれるのはあなただけなのです

 
At 4:10 AM, Anonymous 恋愛 said...

毎日楽しい生活してても何かが足りないって思った時何が足りないか分かったの…O(≧▽≦)O それは恋愛だったんだ~って(苦笑)σ(^_^;)唯一、私にはなかったもの…彼氏がほし~い(>▽<;; フリーの人いませんか?私を恋人にして下さい♪♪仲良くなってどこかへ遊びに行きませんか?(≧▽≦;)明るい性格なので、一緒にいて楽しいと思います!!年下の人は苦手で仲良くなる自信がないので私より年上の人でお願いしますヽ(*´ー`)ゞ少しでも気になった人は今すぐにメール下さい♪ beat-angel.risa@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 3:32 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

突如として消えたスタービーチが電撃復帰!長い年月をかけて蘇った進化したスタービーチをお楽しみください

 
At 4:25 AM, Anonymous スタービーチ said...

であえる確立NO.1を誇るスタービーチが帰ってきた!であいの要素がいっぱいつまった当サイトでであいのきっかけ掴みましょ

 
At 4:58 AM, Anonymous SM度チェッカー said...

SM度チェッカーで隠された性癖をチェック!外見では分からない男女のSM指数をチェックして、合コンや飲み会で一気に気になる人との仲を縮めよう

 
At 4:38 AM, Anonymous アダルトSNS said...

アダルトSNSは今話題沸騰中!!女の子達のエッチ告白、日々のマル秘映像や写真は要チェック!!!今すぐ無料参加してアダルトSNSを始めよう

 
At 4:39 AM, Anonymous モバゲー said...

モバゲーより確実に遊べるサイト誕生!スタービーチで理想の関係を築いていきませんか

 
At 4:49 AM, Anonymous メル友 said...

全国からメル友募集中の女の子達が、あなたの誘いを待ってるよ!無料エントリーで自由な恋愛を楽しんじゃお

 
At 3:43 AM, Anonymous 恋愛 said...

彼氏いない歴2年半になろうとしてます、なかなか相性の合う人と出会えず、好意をよせてくれる人もいたけどダメだった。 一緒にいて楽しくて落ち着く人と、仲良くなって恋愛したい!!甘えさせてくれる人がいいから、年下の人は私には向いてません。よろしくね!ruri11.ko9@docomo.ne.jp

 
At 2:37 AM, Anonymous モバゲー said...

今やモバゲーは人気SNS!当然出会いを求めてる人も多い!そこで男女が出逢えるコミュニティーが誕生!ここなら友達、恋人が簡単にできちゃいますよ

 
At 3:37 AM, Anonymous 日本ダービー said...

第77回 日本ダービー 2010 予想、オッズ、厳選買い目は?人気が平然と馬券に絡む理由とは!?見事に展開を読んで結果を的中させる

 
At 4:14 AM, Anonymous モバゲー said...

モバゲータウンでいろんな異性と交流を深めあいませんか。異性に対して経験がない方でも簡単にお楽しみいただける、シンプルかつ効率的に優れているサイトとなっています

 
At 4:47 AM, Anonymous ツイッター said...

全世界で大ブームを巻き起こしているツイッター!!それを利用して今まで経験したことがないような恋を経験してみませんか

 

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